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Featured articleBorscht is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 19, 2016.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
April 8, 2016Good article nomineeListed
June 5, 2016Featured article candidatePromoted
Did You Know
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on April 22, 2016.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that common hogweed was originally the main ingredient of borscht?
Current status: Featured article

Botvinya is a word in Russian for an kind of beet soup

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In short: botvinya is (more like "was" though) a word in Russian for an kind of soup, and it was commonly made with beets. I guess this is the dish that was already ubiquitous in Russian Empire before it was re-labelled as borscht.

Full story: I remember now. In Russian, there is a rare word for a beet soup with leaves. The word for it is "botvinnik" "botvinya". And the word for the leaves plucked from vegetables - beets or not - is "botva" in Russian.

Thing is, "botvinnik" botvinya beet soup was a common thing in Russia ever since, whenever it was labelled "borscht" or had its "botvinya" name. And, I GUESS, it is not related to the "ancient hogweed soup" since it's not about souring the soup, it's about the "botva", e.g. plucked leaves from growing vegetables.

  • The kicker is, this word nowadays belongs to the dictionary of forgotten words: see ISBN 978-5-98986-208-5
  • And an additional kicker is, the soup was believed to be a "zakuska", a small dish.

I think that explains the mystery why beet soups are so common in Russia all while everyone refers to the soups using the same name that is used for borscht. The "botvinnik botvinya ---> borshch" renaming could have taken place somewhere in the USSR, which is relativly easy to write off as "some writers' mix-up".

Thought it could have been an intersting trivia for future years of disputes, whether borscht-as-a-dish is "stolen" or not.

Anyway, I am about to abandon my Wikipedia procrastination so you may not hear from me soon. Goodbye. 81.89.66.133 (talk) 09:04, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Borscht is presented in probably the oldest Russian cook book published in 1779
https://archive.org/details/druk-02/page/n9/mode/2up
and yes, it’s a beet soup the recipe is very similar to the modern one, and it’s called борщЪ (borscht) Uloqopo (talk) 11:04, 17 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Whoa! A book from 1779? A "recipe very similar to the modern one"? Cool! So it wasn't botvinya in 1779? Good. Spasibo. 81.89.66.133 (talk) 13:05, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 4 November 2024

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remove Czech from Associated cuisine 109.81.165.109 (talk) 10:21, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 22:12, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the request was aimed towards the infobox on the dish, the "Associated cuisine" section - it lists Czech [cuisine] as associated with borscht, while it's not really the case with the beet soup (the "borscht qua borscht"). 81.89.66.133 (talk) 12:07, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I went ahead and removed it because "czech" literally doesn't appear anywhere in the article. But someone probably ought to go through the entire list of associated cuisines in the infobox and check. I'll leave myself a w-ping for a few days, but if someone wants to do that before I circle back, it would be a kindness. :) Valereee (talk) 16:52, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On second thought...I just removed that section of the infobox. It was silly long. Just because a dish is known in a cuisine doesn't mean it's associated with that cuisine. We should only add back those that we can find a source saying "associated with" for a cuisine. Valereee (talk) 16:55, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Simply put: I agree with you on this matter. Thanks a lot. 81.89.66.133 (talk) 06:22, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. Just because a restaurant in Prague has "borsch" as one of 10 available soups on a menu doesn't warrant its inclusion here as "part of Czech cuisine". My Ukrainian wife makes borsch here in Utah. That doesn't make it "American". --TaivoLinguist (Taivo) (talk) 17:49, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
>American
>capitalized "American"
Oh. That reminds me: in Runglish, origin-related words (such as the ones with "-ian") are not capitalized because... it haven't been a common thing in Russian (a.k.a. русский язык) for a long time. Added an entry to Runglish. 81.89.66.133 (talk) 09:54, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Place of origin

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Is there any scientific evidence that borscht originated in Ukraine? I mean, that claim requires extraordinary evidence. Not just source less statements from a third rate culinary encyclopedia Uloqopo (talk) 11:26, 17 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Simple answer: apparently, it's a reference to a particular style of the soup like the one that made its way to the Borscht Belt; just like holishkes are not golabki. E.g. apparently "borscht" in English is not equal to the whole borshch family of soups + casserole-like hearty dishes + slop-like dishes in between. 81.89.66.133 (talk) 13:54, 17 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
By the particular style of borscht, they mean beetroot soup. But again, there is no evidence that that type of borscht originated in Ukraine. There is a certain recipe called Ukrainian borscht. This name came from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Tasty_and_Healthy_Food This book has two recipes for borscht: Ukrainian Borscht and Borscht. The only difference between the two receipts is that Ukrainian borscht contains salo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salo_(food)
The source of the misconception is the name Ukrainian Borscht, which doesn’t mean that this recipe originated from Ukraine. Uloqopo (talk) 18:17, 18 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oh. "Kniga o vkusnoi i poleznoi pishche" is indeed the magnum opus that formed the Soviet cuisine. Could be useful to check. Especially given the fact salo is a stereotype-like attribute. Sadly, I am too busy to check the book right now. 81.89.66.133 (talk) 12:59, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 18 January 2025

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The origin is Polish, not Ukrainian. Please correct this 2001:1970:47DA:5F00:0:0:0:8BF0 (talk) 17:26, 18 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 22:38, 18 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Look, at some point, the "country" line was replaced with "place of origin". 81.89.66.133 (talk) 15:11, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Origin

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Just remove this entirely because there is no consensus on this, calling it Ukrainian or like some others in here want to claim it as Polish/Russian is ridiculous, it only stroke the flames and makes Wikipedia look bad. 155.4.128.174 (talk) 04:52, 11 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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